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Resident Petition Opposes Long School Traffic Plan

Doercrest residents gathered 150 signatures against a road that would bring bus traffic through their subdivision. The traffic plan is on the Lindbergh Board of Education's agenda for Tuesday night.

The Lindbergh Board of Education will review the proposed traffic route for Long Elmentary School during Tuesday’s regular meeting, but nearby residents are still hoping to prevent a part of the plan that routes buses through their subdivision.

Doercrest subdivision resident Frank Ruzicka and neighbors have gathered 150 signatures in a petition that praises the school’s expansion, but asks that a new road designed for bus traffic not be connected to their neighborhood.

"It's not just about what's in our backyard or front yard. It's about safety,” Ruzicka said.

The neighborhood is working to create an alternate proposal, though Ruzicka said it wouldn’t be ready in time for the Board of Education meeting.

Most recent story: Talk Gets Tense over Proposed Long Elementary Bus Routes

Last year the board approved the purchase of 4.6 acres of land next to Long, on the border of Crestwood and Sunset Hills, to expand the parking lot and add field space to the campus. Proposed traffic changes are in an effort to create a better flow for vehicles, and keep pedestrian and vehicle traffic separate, Assistant Superintendent for Finance Charles Triplett previously told Patch.

Under the new plan, the school’s five buses would head south down a new road connected to Doercrest Drive through a gate operated by a district staffer. Buses would ultimately exit on Eddie & Park Road, instead of Sappington Road. Several residents in the Doercrest subdivision and nearby areas have cited concerns for its impact to traffic, safety in the subdivision, and the amount of information they've gotten from the school district on the plan. Ruzicka even submitted a complaint with Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster’s Office to see if additional documentation is available from district officials.

Superintendent Jim Simpson told residents last week he believes the plan is the most effective option for the school--as well as the safest.

Lindbergh’s Board of Education approved $1.35 million in certificates of participation (COPs) on Jan. 31 to fund the purchase and improvements, according to a report from Call Newspapers

 

Related articles:

  • Long Elementary's New Traffic Plan Irks Neighbors
  • $850K Spent to Buy Land Next to Long Elementary

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Larry James February 13, 2013 at 03:11 am
Let's look at that again... Mr. Rusicka clearly stated that he is NOT a resident of the street in mention. He also presented a petition in which most of the signitures were residents who DO NOT live anywhere near Long school and are NOT impacted by any of these decisions. Safety is the main reason the Lindbergh School District made the decision it made!
Denni February 13, 2013 at 03:30 am
He IS a resident of Doercrest! And the signatures were all around residents of Long.
Denni February 13, 2013 at 03:33 am
Come exit Doercrest and turn left on Eddie and Park during morning or evening. It speaks for itself. Time will tell what happens when you mix a blind hill with a slow turning 38ft bus.
Larry James February 13, 2013 at 03:37 am
Many, many of the adresses were off of Baptist Church Rd, Mueller Rd.,Weber Rd., Rambling Oaks Sub., behind Sunset Ford, Robyn, etc. None of which are in the Long attendance area.
Larry James February 13, 2013 at 03:40 am
Because turning onto Sappington Rd with cars traveling in both directions at 40 miles per hour with no street light is much safer. I live off of Eddie and Park and there is much less traffic than on Sappington. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
Larry James February 13, 2013 at 03:47 am
I applaud the board for making an informed decision. It's not easy to make a decision when you know that others will not be happy with your decision. This is a decision based solely on safety for the children. No hidden agenda here.
Karlie Baker (Editor) February 13, 2013 at 04:26 am
Thanks for your comments so far. Larry, I also have in my notes from previous meetings that Ruzicka is a resident of the Doercrest subdivision.
Find our follow-up on tonight's meeting, complete with video: http://patch.com/A-1SHZ
Larry James February 13, 2013 at 04:52 am
I may have mispoke w/ his resident street. Does he actually live on the Doecrest which is the street that willl be used by the busesthe buses.
I'm also interested in hearing the anti-bus folks respond to the fact that Southview school's bus traffic and how is it that their buses have no problems turning onto E & P. Isn't their exit onto E & P even closer to the "hill" than Doercrest Dr.? I will be sure to look at the location of their driveway, since I pass it every day. Or is this really as simple as they don't want the busses on their street? I could at least buy that, rather then trying to make this into a safety issue. That one just isn't going to fly since Sappington is a much more traffic heavy street. I want to add one more fact that the board mentioned... I too work in a school and it is the goal of every school to seperate bus traffic w/ car and foot traffic. When those things mix, there is an increase risk of accidents. This is a fact and goal at ALL schools
Frank Ruzicka February 13, 2013 at 04:59 am
Sorry Larry but I need to correct you. The speed limit on Sappington is 35MPH not 40MPH as you state. The speed limit is then reduced to 25MPH in the school zone as you approach Long Elementary. Yes, you are correct, there is less traffic on Eddie & Park since it is only a 2 lane road (maintained by Sunset Hills at that point) with a very compromised sight line, not a 4 lane road maintained by St Louis County
Larry James February 13, 2013 at 05:06 am
Thanks Frank, but as stated by one of the folks tonight, many if not most drivers move faster than the posted he speed limit. I'm also curious about Southview school and why they don't appear to have a line of sight problem on E & P?
I'm also interested in your statement tonight about special interest groups? Am I correct that you recommended to the board that they don't act on behalf of them? If I am remembering correctly, which group would that be that they are considering?
Frank Ruzicka February 13, 2013 at 05:10 am
Larry, for the record (as I stated it in my presentation tonight) I do live on Doercrest Drive but I speak for over 150 residents of the Lindbergh School District. Many neighbors of Southview are not happy with the current traffic situation, this plan only makes it worse.The one thing Southview has going for them, the buses are not as large and the sight line (and driver reation time) is improved by a couple hundred feet. We aren't trying to make this a safety issue, it is a safety issue! The district can achieve everything they strive for if they go back to the drawing board with their plan. Neither MoDot nor St. Louis County has ever reviewed or rejected a request for additional curbs cuts on Sappington.
Larry James February 13, 2013 at 05:24 am
Frank, I obviously mispoke about where you live. My bad. Again, of that 150, how many actually live in the Long attendance area and are impacted by these 5 buses? So the Southview exit is farther from the hill or closer than Doercrest? I honestly don't know? So you believe it's safe pulling onto Sappington w/ no light and many, many more cars. Where are your statistics or experts that make this safer? Sounds like Lindbergh's experts/engineers disagree w/ you. They aren't paid to agree w/ the board. They're paid to create the safest option. Ultimately, the city has to approve this as well and approve permits... right?. Are you going to take your petitioin signed by many non crestwood residents who live nowhere near E and P or Doercrest to the city too?
Frank Ruzicka February 13, 2013 at 06:09 am
Larry, we wanted to show the district this issue is bigger than just our subdivision. We expanded our petition to include Lindbergh School District residents (tax payers who contribute to the district). Sappington does have a light that is used during school hours and again has a reduced speed limit of 25MPH (usually a Crestwood police officer is on hand). We don't have statistics, we would encourage the district to collect them (at our expense since we are tax payers) rather than for our grassroots group to pay for them out of our own very limited personal funds. Funny how the distrcit gave accident figures for the intersection of Doercrest and Eddie & Park for a 5 year period but gave no figures for accidents in front of Long School? As far as their experts and engineers, their plan stops at the dead end of Doercrest. The plan doesn't give any details of the intersection at Doercrest and Eddie & Park. And yes, the Southview exit, though not great, is better positioned further from the hill and allows better reaction time for oncoming traffic. Will this need to go before Crestwood for approval, we will see. It is also complicated by the fact that Eddie & Park is maintained by Sunset Hills at that intersection not St. Louis County as was incorrectly stated in the meeting tonight. We will continue to petiton all Lindbergh School residents since their tax dollars are being spent on a poorly designed and dangerous plan.
Larry James February 14, 2013 at 12:53 am
Frank, I pulled out of your street and onto E & P today. I think that your "hill" is a bit of an overstatement. A bus would have no problem seeing oncoming cars from both directions. That seems to discredit your stance about line of sight. The light on Sappington does not help with dismissing buses onto Sappington.
I'm also interested in how you collected these signatures? I live within blocks of you and no petition came down my street. Didn't see you at the grocery store? I can't imagine there are 150 concerned citizens eager to search you out from Concord School, Kennerly, Crestwood or Sappington who are informed enough about this particular issue to truly have an opinion. I'm trying to stop shy of assuming that you are part of a group who have a hidden agenda around schools, tax dollars etc. Still haven't heard what special interest group you were referring to in your presentation last night? I believe that the only concern that the board and admin. have is the safety of their students. Again, if it's about you not wishing to have 5 buses go down your street twice per day, then just say it. At least that would make sense. Don't make it into something it's not.
Jess February 14, 2013 at 12:07 pm
Whatever this is about in the school districts mind, they should just say it. They shouldn't be making it about safety, when it it's not. I find it hard to believe that this is the ONLY solution that is safe. But who are we, just the people that pay for their fancy buildings and nice offices.
Frank Ruzicka February 14, 2013 at 03:18 pm
Larry, I am not sure if that is your real identity since I can't seem to find a Larry James living within a few blocks of me? We collected the signatures the old fashion way, at neighborhood meetings, after church, I even joined 3 Lindbergh families before they celebrated dinner together on Sunday evening. This is a real grassroots effort. We don't have any budget; I paid for the clip boards and printing myself. You ask about a special interest group, I would consider the Long PTO a special interest group. They only represent the interest of Long parents. They sent out a one sided survey to Long parents which was then used to discredit us at the meeting. My petition contains signatures from people how have no interest in Long school but have an interest in the over all safety within our community. Our focus is safety; I think we have made that perfectly clear. Is it safer for three 38' long school buses to make a left on to the 2 lane hill at Eddie & Park (speed limit 30MPH) or to turn on to a 4 lane, level surface controlled by traffic lights and school warning lights which reduce the speed limit to 25MPH? Please provide me your address, I or one of our volunteers will be happy to come over to get signatures from anyone in your neighborhood who is open minded enough to listen to the facts.
craig February 15, 2013 at 12:53 am
Jess, what are you talking about? The only thing this is about is safety. "this is about in the school districts mind"... huh? Separating buses from the cars and children/parents walking is the main goal. If they won't allow another curb cut, then this is seems to be the best option.
Mr. Rusicka, calling a school's PTO a special interest group is correct. They are interested in finding ways to support the students, staff and community of Long School and the district. Supporting the safety, education and development of the kids who attend that school year after year. I have no doubt that you met w/ like minded people that you know. I have neighbors who claim to have seen a teacher in a local private school ask her parents to sign your petition. If it was so grass roots, why didn't anyone knock on the doors of the general public. That's grass roots. Not searching out the like minded. I too live within blocks of you. Yes this is my real name. The question on the survey was simple... Do you support the current plan. I didn't reply, because I wanted to hear more. So I went to the board meeting. I believe the board and the engineers at face value. I believe that they find this to be the best plan that provides the most safety for the kids. A bus driver sits approx. 8 feet above the road. No line of sight issue. Crossing 1 lane of traffic is much safer than crossing two on Sappington.
craig February 15, 2013 at 01:01 am
I have know doubt that "some" of the signatures were from neighborhoods feeding into Long school. But MANY were not. I saw the list. Mr. Rusicka has the names, how many are not in Long's attendance area vs not?
craig February 15, 2013 at 01:07 am
Whoops. How many ARE vs are NOT Long parents?
Frank Ruzicka February 15, 2013 at 02:56 am
Craig, the curb cut is the issue where the district plan is faulty. They didn't ask the county or MoDot (their own admission) their engineer believes they will say no but they haven't asked. There is an existing cut on the former Abeln property, it may not allow for the maximum size athletic field but safety is the issue here not athletic fields. When specifically asked Superintendent Simpson if a different traffic configuration was considered he said no. "This is our plan and we are going forward with it" I think were his exact words. There were roughly 30 people in attendance that night, Sorry if we didn't get to your door for a signature but we have jobs, kids, etc. We did go door to door and I did come into contact with people who would not sign. I don't know how much more grassroots we could be? We can't afford an attorney, engineer or consultant. We paid $30 out of our own pockets to meet as a group at Southview school. The mayor of Crestwood was in attendance as was a representative from the Crestwood police department as well as 2 aldermen (1 Crestwood, 1 Sunset Hills) Those meeting flyers were delivered door to door as well. Just what do you consider grassroots?
craig February 15, 2013 at 03:42 am
Your approach is smart. Safety is the angle I would take too. I just don't see that you have proven that exiting onto E & P is less safe. The bus experts and the engineers say that this is safer. Why would those two entities make a decision that would put kids in harms way. I don't think that bus company wants to put kids or their employees at risk. That makes no sense. What expert do you have to say the opposite. You are only referencing your opinion.
I'm glad to hear that you met w/ local leaders. That makes sense to me. I would describe grass roots to be from the community impacted by the issue. Those who live on Weber Hill Road or Dandridge or Antrill are NOT impacted by this decision. The only people impacted live on your street. The fact that Lindbergh provides ALL kids with a ride on a bus... WOW!!! What a luxury and great service they provide. Regardless where you live. Even on your street! Less than a stones throw away.
Frank Ruzicka February 15, 2013 at 04:22 am
Again, the engineers were not asked to evaluate the safety of a bus exit onto Sappington, they were asked to design a seperate bus loop to exit on Doercrest.
I was there the morning of the "test run" that the superintendent refers to. It was a Friday morning at 10:00am, an empty bus and it made a right on to Eddie & Park. I would love to see (but can't afford to hire) 5 full size buses lined up Doercrest Drive and see what it looks like to have 3 turn left (and then 2 line up at the light to make a left on Sappington with 1 going straight) then have the other 2 turn right onto Eddie & Park as described. It would really be cool if they did this at 3.20pm rather than 10:00am. As far as the community who is impacted, anyone who pays taxes towards Lindbergh School district should be considered impacted. It doesn't matter if you live in the neighborhood, have kids in Lindbergh schools or if they even attend Long, your tax dollars are paying for this. The luxury and great service being provided is being done with our collective tax dollars. For the record, my 3 children attended private Catholic grade schools and high schools but I have whole heartly supported Lindbergh schools for over 20 years now with my tax dollars. I whole heartly support the Long School expansion plan but oppose the traffic flow.
craig February 15, 2013 at 05:33 am
I believe it naive to think that they didn't look at several options. I thought that I heard that they came to the conclusion that this is the best option and the only one that they believe worth moving forward. I've been in too many construction planning meetings to believe that this was the only draft they looked at. If you don't believe them when they discuss the curb cuts, then call modot or the city yourself. That doesn't cost a thing for your group.
They are trying to do what's best. It's good that people monitor how schools spend their money and Lindbergh has proven to be a VERY conservative district. When I say luxury, most districts have limits on how far one must live to qualify for transportation. Many of those districts have much higher tax rates than Lindbergh. More than one board member stated that they observed the morning traffic. That's pretty hands on to me. If they saw a concern would they not rethink this decision? What did the police say about the safety? If they continue to prove that this is more safe do you get to a point to trust the experts? I get that you want to maintain a dead end street. But if the experts say this is safe... Engineers, bus company, police... Does that satisfy your concern?
Mary February 15, 2013 at 01:24 pm
The district wants to do this the way they want to do it, because they are Lindbergh. They have plans for the space, and don't want to give any up for safer egress/ingress concepts. They could easily have an alternate plan that actually does a better job than this one of separating cars and buses. In this plan, they actually do converge, and right near the athletic field. I don't understand why they won't show the public the other options considered.
Frank Ruzicka February 15, 2013 at 02:00 pm
Craig I would be completely satisfied if the current plan was determined to be "more safe" as you put it. But this plan has only been compared to the current traffic situation (which we agree is less than desirable). That is exactly what I asked the board to do; get more information, gather more facts and opinions and make a well informed decision. Again, Superintendent Simpson publicly acknowledged no other traffic plan was considered. How can the proposed plan be safer than an alternative that doesn't exist? The police departments haven't voiced an opinion (I reviewed the plan before our police chief had even received it!) I have no idea if they even shared it with Sunset Hills Police. Why is the district in such a hurry to push this through?
Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Karlie Baker (Editor) June 15, 2013 at 02:20 pm
You can get info on construction here:Read More http://sunsethills-crestwood.patch.com/groups/politics-and-elections/p/how-is-sappington-road-construction-affecting-your-day
Reasonable Person June 11, 2013 at 02:17 pm
Competition is good! So, is choice! But, it's apples and oranges between Little Caesars and thoseRead More sit down restaurants, anyway.
John Dough June 11, 2013 at 03:26 pm
Karlie Not for a $5.00 Pizza you can't... it's not the best Pizza but then it's not the mostRead More expensive..
earl kliethermes June 16, 2013 at 08:38 pm
That isn't pizza. It's just fast food.
Karlie Baker (Editor) June 5, 2013 at 02:36 pm
Learn more about the ongoing auction, and how you can snag a piece from the mall:Read More http://sunsethills-crestwood.patch.com/groups/business-news/p/bid-now-own-a-piece-of-crestwood-court
What Went Wong June 6, 2013 at 10:20 am
Now that the mall is closing, I assume the lack of leadership on our Board of Aldermen has causedRead More the developer to abandon moving forward with the project. Can't say as I blame them.